Implanting with a piercing needle?

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   Hello! I am new to the forum. I have been interested in RFID for a few years now and decided to get into the hobby recently. I am going to be purchasing the 13x3mm glass EM4102 RFID chip from Trossen Electronics sometime this week. (I luckily live only about 15 minutes from them!) I chose the 13x3mm implant because of it being easier to pick up on readers. I would rather have one a millimeter larger than regret that I chose the smaller of the two. The problem though, is how to get it in my hand. I was thinking a piercing needle. Has anyone had any experience using these? If so, what gauge needle did you have to use? I want to be able to slide the implant into the bore of the needle. I see ebay has all sizes, even 4 gauge for around $5 shipped for one needle. It just seems awful big, but I would hate to get something too small. My first project is going to be using the RedBee RFID reader on my front door. I am really excited to try this out!
Robert

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Robby792811 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 07 November 2010 Location: Aurora, IL Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robby792811 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Implanting with a piercing needle? Posted: 07 November 2010 at 7:39pm
	Hello! I am new to the forum. I have been interested in RFID for a few years now and decided to get into the hobby recently. I am going to be purchasing the 13x3mm glass EM4102 RFID chip from Trossen Electronics sometime this week. (I luckily live only about 15 minutes from them!) I chose the 13x3mm implant because of it being easier to pick up on readers. I would rather have one a millimeter larger than regret that I chose the smaller of the two. The problem though, is how to get it in my hand. I was thinking a piercing needle. Has anyone had any experience using these? If so, what gauge needle did you have to use? I want to be able to slide the implant into the bore of the needle. I see ebay has all sizes, even 4 gauge for around $5 shipped for one needle. It just seems awful big, but I would hate to get something too small. My first project is going to be using the RedBee RFID reader on my front door. I am really excited to try this out! Robert

ecnal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 18 April 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 61	Post Options Post Reply Quote ecnal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 November 2010 at 5:59pm
	Yup. I did my implant myself with a 6ga needle. I ordered a 25 pack of each 6 and 8 ga off ebay for $10 each. Pre-sterilized with EO gas. I did not autoclave my tag. I should have, and I suggest you do. However I have access to 99.5% isopropyl alcohol. I soaked the tag in it for over a week in a boiled glass container. If any bacteria survived that, god bless 'em. Anyhow. I numbed my hand with ice until I couldn't bear it anymore and inserted the needle. I didn't go in at an optimal angle and the tag ended up a little closer to my index finder bone in my hand (no idea the medical name for it) than I'd like. It's only 1 cm away or so, but it doesn't bother me at all. The tag slides easily through a Monsterpoint (or some similar name) piercing needle. I used a sterilized (boiled and soaked in alcohol) glass drink mixer for a plunge to push the tag under the skin. Held it closed for ten mins. or so until it held itself, then applied two strips of medical tape. It's been a few months, but I still have a scar. Probably always will, but it doesn't bother me. I think if I had been a little quicker and smoother with the needle insertion, then it would've healed a little cleaner. But I scar strangely anyways, so it's no big deal. Prepare for it to be SORE for a few days afterwards, however. I also took multiviatmins for a week before and after the procedure. I suggest having someone else there to pinch the skin for you. I made an elaborate contraption to pinch and pull it for me, but it wouldn't been a hundred times easier if I had someone there to do it for me.

Robby792811 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 07 November 2010 Location: Aurora, IL Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robby792811 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 November 2010 at 6:49pm
	Thanks for the reply! I am super excited to do this, but will have to do it myself as well. I just don't know how to bring this up to somebody. You know what I mean? But anyway, I did the same as you stated. I bought a 6 & 8 gauge needle. You said you used the 6. Was the 8 too small for the 3mm tag? I see the 8 gauge needle is 3.264mm thick and the 6 gauge is 4.115mm. I just don't know if that means the actual needle or the bore. Oh well, bought both and will see when I get them. Again thanks for the reply. I will post once I go for it and do it!

ecnal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 18 April 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 61	Post Options Post Reply Quote ecnal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 November 2010 at 7:40pm
	I went through a ton of googling to figure out the inner diameter, etc etc of the needle. Long story short: 8ga was a TIIIINNNYY bit too small. Go with the 6. If it's just you by yourself, here's what I did, roughly described: -I got a camera tripod. Anything taller than your arm held horizontally at chest level will do. -I tied a string to it (fishing line), and on the other end of the fishing line, a clothespin. A strong springed one will do better than one with little gripping power. -Pinched skin with clothespin, and used the weight of my arm (not all of it!) to pull the skin up. I then inserted the needle. MAKE SURE you use something that grips well! Something stronger than a clothespin would be best. Even an alligator clip. It won't feel very good, but then again neither will a 6ga needle in your hand. While I was inserting the needle, the skin came out of the clothespin. So I had to reattach with a needle handing half out of my hand. My cat was starting at me the whole time like 'wtf?'.

Robby792811 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 07 November 2010 Location: Aurora, IL Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robby792811 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 November 2010 at 3:35pm
	OK so I did it! I now have the chip! I got the mail when I got home and the piercing needles arrived. The 6 gauge was the right size and let me just say, it was huge! I was so nervous. But, I just pinched with one hand and held the needle there with my thumb and pushed. I had to use more force than I thought. It didn't go right in my way. But it did and in went the implant. I am not the squeamish type at the sight of blood, but I must have had an adrenaline rush or something because I felt as though I was going to be sick and pass out. It went away after taking some deep breaths, but wasn't the most pleasant feeling. So I will have to start my projects. First, unlocking the car door!

ecnal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 18 April 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 61	Post Options Post Reply Quote ecnal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 November 2010 at 5:58pm
	Did you sanitize the tag?

Robby792811 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 07 November 2010 Location: Aurora, IL Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robby792811 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 November 2010 at 7:37pm
	Of course. It was sitting in Alcohol for 3 days. Like you said, I doubt anything can survive that.