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RFID Car Ignition! |
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amal 
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Joined: 22 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2061 |
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 Posted: 15 January 2010 at 10:04pm |
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Nope, the memory is non-volatile. The readers that have sat in my drawer for 2 years are still programmed with my tag ID. I think the technical limit on NV memory is something like 100 years or so. After that it starts to degrade and you get bit errors, but you can just re-write the data to memory and you're good for another 100 years or so.
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Amal ;)
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Hishamomran
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Joined: 12 January 2010 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: 16 January 2010 at 2:48am |
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Ok..I've decided to go with the glass tag I mentioned in the first post; also using the RFID reader from eBay.. I guess this is a good combination for a car start!
I only have one problem, eBay only accepts paypal, and I don't want to go through all the shipping hassle, if anyone is able to ship me all the components and I would pay him via credit card or something? |
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ecnal
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Joined: 18 April 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 61 |
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 5:35pm |
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Amal, this reader: you use it in your car? How's the range?
I just got mine in the mail and hooked it up to my workbench power supply, testing it out. I programmed two glass tags, the 3x13 ones. They read fine, however I tried taping one to my hand with medical tape and it reads from about an inch away when I turn my hand around akwardly, so the tag is face-down at the reader. If I try it palm-down, my hand has to basically make love to the reader to get it to read. Is this normal? Do you have to present the 'back' of your hand to your reader?
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amal
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Joined: 22 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2061 |
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 7:37pm |
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The range is decent for glass tags. I have the cylindrical coil antenna mounted to the inside of my windshield where the glass meets the dash. I just drag my hand across the glass on my way to the door and it's unlocked and ready to go by the time I grip the handle. I also use this reader to start my motorcycle.
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Amal ;)
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ecnal
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Joined: 18 April 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 61 |
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 7:51pm |
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Do you use RFID to start your car as well?
I'm having trouble finding info on how to wire it. It's a 2010 Corolla, so I'm a little hesitant to just run wires from a relay to the starting solenoid. I'm gonna get ahold of some remote start installers tomorrow to ask, but wondering if you have any input. I'd like to keep the ignition working as normal. I believe the car has chipped keys, but they're not laser cut or anything. Also, do you think it would be easier to just have a remote start installed and hack one of the keyfobs like in the book?
Edited by ecnal - 19 January 2010 at 7:54pm |
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Whiterabbit
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Joined: 09 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 8:06pm |
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All remote starters use the same methods. They use a variant of the 30A Bosch relay (google that and you will get the famous images) to provide current to the starter wire. Good to go. These relays are reasonably cheap, small, and the bosch variety interface easily using spade terminals. You use the RFID device to output the 200ish mA needed to activate that relay which you'll wire to send 12 volts to the starter wire. Car will start. (if the IGN wire is energized and the transponder is bypassed)This is of course terrible design since you need to turn a key or a switch to activate ACC, so 1/8th turn more and you are there anyways. But whatever floats your boat.
ALL the wiring you need is in the steering column. And that's where any remote start installer will go to tap the wires anyways for an RS system.
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Whiterabbit
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 8:19pm |
If you don't mind me making inflammatory commentary, I think this is a great question and an important one. May I make a recommendation?
Before even thinking about RFID, before even taking one step towards any sort of design, hardware, integration, ANYTHING. Before anything else, I recommend:
Define what you want out of your experience. The experience of starting your car. What's wrong with it now? what do you want it to be like? how does the current way it is done failing the concept of the way it should be like?
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Because (get ready for the inflammatory part) if you are changing your OEM hardware to make things less convenient, adding ugly toggle switches to control critical hardware like ACC or IGN when the OEM provided security switches that already do the same thing, and exposing ugly antennas to view anywhere for any purpose, you are contributing to bad design.
And people will judge you for it (when you get into a brand new car and have to flip 1970's switches as a part of a pre-flight routine just to start your car every ... single ... time)
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So! How do we improve upon what Toyota has already provided?
We define behavior first. Then the design unwaveringly follows those performance goals. And if there are problems like it's impossible, or too expensive, then it doesn't get done. Because skimped alternatives lead to degraded performance.
Again, I don't mean to be personally inflammatory. Just critical of the concept and the design. I actually like the concept and have several designs in my head but the wife is non-denominational meaning she's three steps away from being one of the sign carrying protesters, so an implant for me means divorce. As if carried tags are problematic (they aren't). So if you care to share performance goals, we can all provide input on how your plans succeed or fail, and how to accomplish them in reality cheaply and easily.
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ecnal
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 8:20pm |
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Thank you!
So bare with me here, please. I've never owned a new car, so never one with a remote start. If I got a remote start installed and hacked the keyfob, would you still need a key once you want to drive the vehicle? If so, is there a way to completely bypass the need for a key? Like, the reader activates ACC and everything else as well.
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amal
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Joined: 22 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2061 |
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 9:07pm |
Agreed. One should think about the experience and application's usability before actually hacking up a nice vehicle (or whatever you're going to hack up). Also, a good bench test or two is a good idea... sometimes what you think will work one way ends up not working so well on the bench, and it's good to find that out before you cut panels/drill holes/etc. To answer ecnal's question, I don't use RFID to start the car because it has a manual transmission, and I didn't want to mess with bypassing the immobilizer. Since the VW has an auto-locking routine where the doors will lock themselves after a certain time period (only in certain situations), the RFID is simply there to let me in the car if, somehow, my keys get locked inside... which has happened twice. It's also convenient it I'm running out to grab something from the car and don't want to fish for my keys. Finally, I keep a valet key in a hidden compartment inside the car and I've actually ended up using RFID several times to get in the car and drive off with the valet key when I couldn't find my keys and I was running late. Edited by amal - 19 January 2010 at 9:09pm |
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Amal ;)
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ecnal
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 9:22pm |
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I didn't even see Whiterabbit's post - one minute before mine!
I don't take any sort of offence at all, your questions are perfectly valid and reasonable. Truth be told, I'm not 100% on an RFID start. I'm just gathering information. I understand about the switches. Why change something and put in a ton of effort only to have it do the same thing in just as many steps? That's why I'm digging around for info - if it was as easy as tapping into some ignition wires and hooking it up to an RFID relay than that seems pretty simple. Ultimately, I would like a keyless car without the money of a Maybach-similar system. I lose my keys constantly. I keep a key in the car at all times just incase I need it. I remember a time once, two years ago or so. Went for a jog on the beach with my girlfriend. Got back to the car and couldn't find my keys. So we combed the beach and found them about a mile away, barely sticking out of the sand and being spalshed on by the waves, since the tide had come in a few feet. Could've used RFID then! After the research that I've done here and elsewhere, it's seeming like less of a possible thing to do and keep simple. I'll most likely just stick with the RFID car entry.
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ecnal wrote: