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I’ll admit it terrifies me

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    Posted: 29 July 2007 at 11:31am
I'll admit that it terrifies me.

I'm not ranting. I'm being honest.

I don't care about RFID in anything that I buy. I don't want it in my credit/bank cards, and I definitely do not want it in my body!

I cannot wrap my head around such a thing, and get away from my entire childhood theological teaching. I'll admit it's from that.

I can "discuss" it calmly, like this, but I cannot get the level of terror that I feel about it out of my system.

There's a difference, of course, between irrational rants, and honesty about one's fears.

All I know is this: if the day ever does come that this becomes mandatory, advanced, and my ability to buy food becomes contingent on it, and my much needed medications, I shall be in a dilemma that I have no answer for, not now, not then.

Now mind you, as long as it's not in my body, I'm fairly OK with it. Scan my retina, or my fingerprints, whatever. I might not like it, but I'll endure it, and accept it.

<Sigh!> With my luck, I'd be one of the few with a quirky body that rejected the chip, anyway. You have no idea how messed up sterile surgical clips, and very sterile piercings, have made various parts of my body. I've actually had to be in hospital with intravenous antibiotics because of it. So, I cannot imagine my body "liking" a "chip" in it, either, one bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2007 at 11:47am

Hi there, thanks for posting. There is a lot of ground to cover so we can both understand each other, if you want to.

First of all, can I ask if you would be terrified of other technology in your body, like for example a pace maker for a problematic heart or a cochlear implant if you had hearing problems/deafness? Is it a fear of technological devices being in your body, or is it RFID specifically that scares you?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rm8471 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2007 at 2:47pm
It's specifically RFID. I'm sorry, I thought I made that clear, when I stated: "I cannot...get away from my entire childhood theological teaching. I'll admit it's from that."

I was a RN for 24 years (before my lungs gave out, just last year, and I became oxygen dependent 24 hours-a-day), so I would not be particularly afraid of a pacemaker. Oh, I might dread the general situation, involving my heart, the surgery, etc., but I would not have the terror that I feel about a chip in my body that can be read.

I think I'd be more anxious, also about a cochlear implant, but only because they were so physically inside my head, near my brain, etc., during the surgery, that is.

I definitely would not equate either with RFID chips in my hand or arm.

I suppose if I was 100% certain it was only for security, and that it was of such a design that I could not be traced by it, and it would never be for purchasing, I would be less upset. Even so, it seems too invasive to me, ethically, and physically.

I mean, pacemakers are, generally, not elective. When one gets one, one gets one so their heartbeat will be stabilized.

And cochlear implants have a distinct purpose of great necessity to many: to hear.

From my personal standpoint, I can get the same quality of security from a retinal scan or a fingerprint scan, and do not have to have a chip inside of me.

If it were my choice, and the issue were security, I would much prefer retinal scans, facial scans, fingerprint scans, etc., to having a RFID chip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2007 at 8:41pm

Ok, I understand what you're saying. All in all, I agree with you that if I should ever NEED to have some kind of digital identifer (implant, national ID card, digital cash card, etc.) where anonymous cash was no longer an option, I would seriously consider leaving to a "less civilized" country where cash/barter was still alive and well.

I would now like to bring some attention to a few things about RFID, and talk further about my concerns over biometric identification methods like fingerprint/face/retinal and eventually DNA scans.

Let's talk about RFID "tracking"

I wanted to address the issue of tracking first, as many people are not familar with exactly how passive RFID tags and implants work, and more importantly, what the limitations are. There are many different kinds of RFID systems out there, with their own set of operating frequencies, features, and capabilities. Because implantable tags must use low frequency to communicate through the body, the total readable range of an RFID implant is only 2 to 4 inches. This does not allow for people to be "tracked" in the sense that one could find you anywhere you were. It's a common misconception that RFID implants can be used to "track" people, find lost children, etc. It's just not true... however, it can be used to "track" people the same way people can be "tracked" through credit card purchase statements... in an RFID-permiates-society scenario, one could imagine using an RFID tag/implant to access your home, pay for things, log into your computer at work, etc... these activites could then be logged the same way your credit card purchases are logged, and through that system of logging, you could theoretically be "tracked" in a sense.

Speaking of RFID based payments, you may or may not be aware that major credit cards (MasterCard PayPass & Visa payWave) are now being sent to people with RFID built right into them so patrons can hold a payment card up to the reader and pay without having to "swipe" the card. This is RFID based payment, plain and simple... the only difference is that it's embedded in a card and not in a glass encased implantable chip.

Finally, if you are worried about tracking, look no further than your cell phone (assuming you have one). With the advent of E-911 services (Enhanced 911), cell phone companies can now pinpoint your location with the click of a mouse button. Local, state, and federal governments now use (and abuse) this technology to pinpoint the location of any mobile phone they like (and 99% of the time, the person is carrying the phone with them).

Let's talk about the implant chip itself

An RFID implant is a standard passive RFID tag, which is a small chip attached to a copper coil antenna. To make the chip implantable, the finished tag is then encased in bio-compatible glass, making the implant chemically inert which "hides" the chip from your body's defenses. The chip has no power supply and cannot transmit it's ID or do anything until it is brought within very close range of a reader. The chip then uses the power of the magnetic field generated by the reader to get just enough power to spit out it's ID. When removed from the field, the chip has no power and goes dead again. As far as the body is concerned, a glass encased RFID implant is definately less intrusive than a body piercing or pace maker or other technology that actually does expose metal parts/wires that do interact with the body.

Some people are also concerned that some day, a technology may exist to read a passive implanted tag at a longer distance. While I'm never one to say never, there are significant problems to overcome before this might one day be possible... and for the most part, these problems are physics problems, not technology problems. The fact that the passive tag uses the magnetic field of the reader to power itself up is a significant problem. It would take a very large antenna the size of a doorway (and a whole lot of power to operate it) just to generate a large enough magnetic field to be able to read a passive implant tag just a few yards away. While this may be possible, it would cost so much to install and operate that creating a giant network of readers throughout a city just to track people walking within a few yards of each reader is just not feasible.

Let's talk about biometrics (face/retinal scans, etc.)

I am personally more concerned about biometric identification methods like fingerprint/face/retinal (and eventually DNA scans) than I ever would be about RFID implants. My main concern centers around two facts:

1) You do not need to do much to opt-in to a biometric system. In some cases, you don't even have to do anything but walk past a security camera. A computer will match your face to a digital drivers license photo, digital passport photo, or some other archived photo of your face and you're location is logged instantly.

To get into Disneyland now, you have to submit your fingerprints to the front gate so they can match your ticket to your print. As far as I can tell, they never inform their customers what they do with those prints afterwards... you are not notified when you buy the tickets that you will have to submit to a fingerprint scan to get in... and soon you're standing at the gate with a choice... scrap your entire Disney vacation, or take 2 seconds to place a finger on the scanner.

Some computer software is now being created that can identify a person simply by watching them walk. It's called gate analysis and it's useful to identify people when it is not possible to get a clear view of their face. Anonymous people's face and gates are constantly being captured and analyzed by cameras all the time in just about every major city in the US and the UK. Oh, don't forget that vehicle license plates are also being captured and processed as well. So, if a government agent or local police officer decides you look suspicious while viewing city surveillance tapes, they can ask the computer to list all the times and dates you've been captured on city surveillance tape. If the agent or officer then decides you're suspicious, they can then take steps to put a name to your face and effectively hunt down a person and even get an alert once you've been spotted in or around the city. While this government based biometric tracking technology has long been deployed, it's keeping a low profile while RFID is taking all the heat from privacy advocates. This concerns me deeply.

2) You cannot opt-out of a biometric tracking system. Unlike an RFID implant, which you can remove (removing a VeriChip would be difficult, but still possible)... once you submit a biometric identifier, you can never be sure you are opted out of the system. You cannot change your fingerprint or retina or DNA structure. Many facial recognition experts are working on advanced software systems that can detect people's faces even after receiving significant facial surgery.

Fear and loathing of RFID - The tangibility factor

All in all, I can understand why RFID might scare you and other people... unlike biometric scanning, an RFID implant is an object that is tangible. It's something that a person can touch and point their finger at and pin their fears on. Biometrics, while it is a much more incidious threat to privacy and personal security, there is no tangible object to rest your fears on... the digital identifier is not an ID card or RFID implant, it is your own body... and obviously you're not going to fear your own body... so there is nothing left to fear, except for some intangible database record in some server somewhere.

Another reason RFID gets a lot of heat from the public is that it is difficult to understand from a technology standpoint. To the general public, an RFID tag or implant can look menacing, and it carries with it a whole lot of mystery:

 - How do radio waves work?
 -
How does the RFID implant work?
 - What does it do inside my body?
 - How far away can it be read from?
 - Can I be tracked?
 - Does it store my personal data on it?
 - Who can read it?

People don't generally know the answers to these questions, and quite often their assumptions are just plain wrong (for the most part, no personal data is stored on any RFID tag, only basic ID numbers). On the other hand (no pun intended), Biometric identification is a very easy concept for people to understand... "the computer looks at my finger print or a picture of my face and knows it's me". This is a very basic concept because that's how humans operate... we can look at a person and automatically compare their face to our very extensive and rather impressive names-to-faces archive system stored in our brains and instantly know who we're looking at. Another reason biometrics is easy to stomach is that we don't have to carry around any kind of object... no ID card, no implant in our bodies... we don't have to think about it at all... the system just works, and we're totally oblivious to the fact that we, the general public, have just as little control over who uses and abuses a biometric identification system as we do over who could use and abuse an RFID based identification system. As I said before, at least with RFID, you can opt out by tossing your RFID card or removing the implant... but once your face/fingerprint/retina scan is in a biometric system, you're in for life.



Edited by amal - 29 July 2007 at 8:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rm8471 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2007 at 1:43am
Yes, I am aware of the "tap & go" commercials for Mastercard, and that it is an embedded chip.

Personally, I think it's insane. It's bad enough already that my ATM card is intertwined with a "check debit" card. Before this, if I lost my ATM card, it was safe, because no one knew my PIN. Now, they can bypass the ATM purchase selection, select "credit," forge my signature, and get away with it. Yes, I know, I'm only culpable for $XX.xx amount, but it's still riskier than having to see my driver's license and signature and compare them.

My cell phone is not inside me. It only "tracks" me if I carry it with me, and only then, if it is ON. In other words, I am in control of if/when I want to be tracked by it. And as with most people, I do not have to own one. My life can exist without it, should it need to do so.

As to fingerprints, it depends on who is using it, and why, for sure. That we seem to agree on. My last employer, when I was a RN, before my lungs gave out and I became oxygen dependent 24 hours-a-day, went to a computerized (Pyxis) system to dispense all medications. It used our fingerprint to confirm that we were who we were, as we went in to obtain medications for the patients. I had no problem with this. It beat remembering another password, on top of all of them I have to remember otherwise (ATM bank, credit cards, fingerstick glucometer at work, access to the main computer at work to chart in the computerized nursing notes, etc., etc., etc.) But then, that was, in theory a closed system limited to the pharmacy department inside of the hospital.

Thank you for your time. I appreciate having rational discussions about this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2007 at 8:19am

I agree with being able to turn off the cell phone... and in a sense, you can do this also with RFID keycards and/or payment cards by shielding them. Special wallets are now being made that will shield the cards from being read unless you remove them from your wallet. People are also known to put RFID enabled work badges inside a special envelope when not at work that shields the badge from being read outside of work. I've also heard of RFID keycards that have an actual "button" on them that you press to connect the antenna to the RFID chip, making the card readable only when the button was depressed.

One of the problems I have with the commercial RFID VeriChip implant is the fact that it is designed for permanent implantation. It is required to be injected deep within the recipient's tissue, not just under the skin. It also has a special anti-migration coating on it that "locks" it in place, making removal a very difficult prospect. They also implemented zero security on the chip, making it readable to anyone that walks by. That in itself isn't so bad, but the fact that they have no security on the chip and the chip is not softare-upgradable, and the fact that it's fairly easy for a malicious hacker to "clone" the chip, and the fact that they want to push using this chip for things like payments and accessing medical records... it's just scary to me. Like I said, if your credit card gets stolen, you get a new one... but what happens if someone nabs your VeriChip ID... you can't get a new ID. You're forever stuck with a compromised tag ID.

That's why I didn't get one of those tags, and instead opted to go the "Do It Yourself" route... the tags I have are not meant for implantation, they are meant to be used in other ways, but I've repurposed them for my own uses. The tags are easy to remove or replace, and one of the tags does have a security mechanism built in. My entire solution is under my control and my tag is generally not useful outside of my own creations. Because of my personal use context, if some random hacker were to grab my tag ID while walking by, they couldn't do much with it. The attacker would have to know me specifically and go to my specific home to try and gain access. Personally, I'm more worried about someone breaking a window to get in. Now let's take a look at a business case context. With a public use context like the SpeedPass or what VeriChip want's to do... the hacker does not have to know the person to be able to go to any gas station and steal gas or buy stuff in the store.

The issue I have with taking fingerprints and other biometric data at work or, to get into Disneyland, is that even though you trust your employer, there's nothing there that really protects you from abuse. Because biometric identifiers are "set in stone", once they are compromised, you're forever at risk. If someone steals your credit card number, you get a new card with a new number and life goes on... but if someone steals the computer with the fingerprint database on it (or hacks it), then you're prints are forever compromised. Another example might be what I experienced with a server collocation facility... they had an iris scanner that required you to scan your eye before you could enter the server room. One day I came in and it was gone, replaced by a new fingerprint scanner. When I asked what had happened to the iris scanner, they said they upgraded because the iris scanner was "old" and was too slow... so I asked what they did with the old iris scanner that was fully loaded with hundreds of customer iris scans. I got an odd look and a long pause, and then an "I don't know". To this day I still don't know if some dumpster diver has my iris scan or not.



Edited by amal - 20 January 2010 at 6:31am
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The thing that terrifies me the most is all the indevidual systems they got running in the RFID network if they where to start talking to each other.  Would look more like your parents watching over you.  A friend of mine in an assion country ordered pizzia, from delivery all he had to do is give them his paywave card number, and they said his address and phone # and and asked them if it was correct he said yes, how did you get that information oh well, we contacted the other Rfid system to make shure it was really you a security measure.  Would you want your usual?  How do you know what my usual is? well we keep track of all your purchases to make it easier on the shopper.  I do not know if that is true all not but this is the kind of stuff that will be leading up to what the bible says is the mark of the beast.  right now its in its infint stage, what makes you think it will stay out of the body?  what makes people think it won't be used against us.  For example i read recently the new vending machines coming out are gonna have contactless technolgy, and if you have diabetes it will decline your order as it will contact a medical computer to check if you are over your limit?  So please I urge you their is some hidden stuff behind this techonoly that if in wrong hands can monitor or even control what you can eat, or do.  and why stop at the credit cards when the next step is to add it to your identification, and than the next step is the body which is begaining to look more like the mark of the beast that the bible for tells, that is why i well not get it.  Not on my credit card not in my body not at all.  they will have to shot me before I give in.

Edited by Sidman - 16 November 2007 at 7:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2007 at 11:52am
Hi Sidman,

On the whole, I agree with you. It's the people and their intentions behind deploying the technology that are the problem... not necessarily the technology itself. It will always be deployed as a time saving, and in some cases, a life saving technology... which might be true, however you always have to keep in mind what level of control you might be giving up to get that convenience. We have policemen that are out on patrol to help keep you safe, but you give up your ability to do a lot of things, like drive 100 miles an hour down the highway (notice I didn't say "right" as that term is over used and not very well understood). Some people would say that's a good thing to not allow others to drive at 100 miles an hour, but I equate it with diabetics not being allowed to eat candy bars if they want. It's equally unsafe for others around them... especially if the diabetic is going to eat that candy bar and get into their car and drive 100 miles an hour.

On the other hand, policemen can make decisions about when it's ok to bend the law. I had a friend who lived out in the sticks and found his wife was writhing in pain. Ambulance rides in this country are astronomically expensive, and they probably wouldn't make it out to his place any time soon, so he put her in his truck and tore off toward the hospital. When he reached the main highway, a state patrol officer was staked out watching for speeders. He stopped and ran up to the patrol car and asked if he could be escorted to the hospital. The officer declined, stating "that's not what we do". Angry, my friend ran back to his truck and tore off at high speed... however, he was not pulled over by any police the entire run. A machine (speed camera , radar, etc.) cannot make that same decision, and convincing a judge after the fact is not a likely scenario.

That being said, I'd like to break down a few things here. I'm warning readers now, I'm in a cranky mood this morning... I woke up with a pounding headache and car alarms going off outside my window and people ringing my doorbell at some ungodly hour... so I'm going to let loose a bit here. Nothing personal Sidman... I'm just not in the mood to sugar coat it today. But, it still is my honest attempt at a response, so please do read it with that grain of salt.

I can't stress enough how important education is, especially when it comes to technologies you fear. The typical reaction is to shut out all information about a technology you fear, but every single military and strategic reference out there always states "know your enemy" and "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer". For whatever reason, people don't ever do that when if comes to this kind of thing... they assume all RFID is the same, and it's all bad. They really don't understand how it works, and more bizarrely, the don't want to know. That just seems strange to me... if I were concerned about something like this, I'd want to know as much as I could know about it. That would help me discern what was a threat and required serious attention, and what was just a distraction.

Originally posted by Sidman Sidman wrote:

The thing that terrifies me the most is all the indevidual systems they got running in the RFID network if they where to start talking to each other.  Would look more like your parents watching over you.


RFID really has nothing to do with this kind of thing. The concept we're talking about here has existed for a long time, since well before RFID came on the scene. However, at the moment there's a level of personal privacy that cannot be breached, at least not yet. That's why Safeway and Fred Meyer and Kroger and other big stores need "club cards" that you sign away your privacy rights to obtain. Otherwise, Safeway could simply access your credit card and banking information to find out what you've been buying and where you've been shopping.

Originally posted by Sidman Sidman wrote:

A friend of mine in an assion country ordered pizzia, from delivery all he had to do is give them his paywave card number, and they said his address and phone # and and asked them if it was correct he said yes, how did you get that information oh well, we contacted the other Rfid system to make shure it was really you a security measure.  Would you want your usual?  How do you know what my usual is? well we keep track of all your purchases to make it easier on the shopper. I do not know if that is true all not but this is the kind of stuff that will be leading up to what the bible says is the mark of the beast.


That story probably is true, but it had nothing to do with the PayWave credit card number. This is what I refer to above as a distraction. Pizza places use a number of identifiers to keep track of previous customers... but the biggest one is the phone number. When your friend called up, his phone number shows up on the computer through standard caller ID (something you can opt out of on a per call or all call basis. Ask your phone company for details.) and his name and address (from previous deliveries, not dug up from some secret RFID database) and previous order history were brought up. This is all information gathered from previous orders, not from various external databases. In principle, this is no different than Safeway attaching your purchases to your club card so they can more accurately target you for specific ads. If you asked the pizza company to not cache/store previous order history, I'm sure they would oblige. If not, let the market decide... stop ordering pizza from there, and let the owner/manager know why.

Originally posted by Sidman Sidman wrote:

I do not know if that is true all not but this is the kind of stuff that will be leading up to what the bible says is the mark of the beast.  right now its in its infint stage, what makes you think it will stay out of the body?  what makes people think it won't be used against us.  For example i read recently the new vending machines coming out are gonna have contactless technolgy, and if you have diabetes it will decline your order as it will contact a medical computer to check if you are over your limit?


First off, where did you read this... did you read it in some nutjob's daily publication, or in a serious international news organization's publication? I've never seen a serious independent publication that got the facts about RFID correct. They always paint far-out pictures of gloom and doom that totally illuminate their ignorance about the technology and what it's capable of... and more importantly, what it's not capable of. Science and accuracy never seems to be a major concern of those kinds of publications. For the most part, it's a bunch of rabble rousing that burns up a lot of energy, fills people's heads with bullsh*t, and ultimately gets nothing done. The worst part is that these publications turn honest, intelligent people in to rabid nutjobs that don't know anything about the real issues. More on this to follow.

Either way though, contactless technology has nothing to do with this... this could just as easily be done using plain old credit cards. However, I don't see it happening for two reasons... one, any person willing to give up access to their medical records to a vending machine company through attempting to purchase is insane... and two, any vending machine company that would NOT want to make a sale because of a person's health records is not going to stay in business very long. Besides, is anything inside a vending machine healthy for anyone anyway?

All that aside, I can look through the bad metaphor to see your point. What I'm saying is, there are a lot of people stating they are afraid, and a lot of rabble rousing... but there is absolutely no organization and absolutely no serious battle plan. There are two very powerful ways you can combat what you feel is a threat to your personal privacy and freedom. The first is through the legal system.

Step 1: Raise awareness and gather a flock. This is the stage where you exercise your legs... do marches, protests, etc. Then move on to other higher level methods of flock gathering once you've conquered step 2.

Step 2: Learn everything about the technology and the real issues so you can carry intelligent conversations with important people higher up in government. Otherwise you just sound like a rabid nut job and you will be ignored by everyone... everyone except other rabid nutjobs.

Step 3: Plan your attack. Don't just do pointless protests and street marches that raise a stink but ultimately do little. Gather contact information, attend public meetings, arrange private meetings... treat it like the serious business that it is, not like a tug-of-war match between "us" and "them". That just consumes a lot of energy and usually gets nowhere. For the most part, legislators and politicians are slimy,  opportunistic, lying aholes... but they are also just people. If there is some master plan concocted by a select few to enslave the masses, most legislators and politicians are NOT in the loop, and would be enslaved just the same. They wouldn't want that for their children just the same as you don't... but they have a public image to worry about and they very seriously need to worry about taking everything on the word of a nut job... so that's why education (step 2) is so important. If you do get a meeting, focus on facts and not on your religious concerns. There are other religions out there and a public figure taking sweeping action based on a religious concern is not likely... even though GWB seems to love attaching his actions internationally to some set of religious goals, his true goals are obvious to most people now. Sorry, now I'm rambling.

Step 4: Mobilize that flock in a way that best utilizes their precious and scarce energy... in this country, most people stick with a given cause for an average of about 30 to 120 days.

The second way is through the free market. Boycotts, when large enough and well organized, have an amazing effect on corporate policy. There are several successful examples already, including Benaton and Gillette. One reason why various Wal Mart boycotts have failed is, well, the free market. You just can't beat their prices. No matter what the collateral costs are, people seem to only be able to see the price tag in front of them when they pick up that pair of tube socks. Above all, retailers want to make money... and if you pose a serious, well coordinated threat to that goal, they will change what they need to change in order to continue to make more money. Bringing up human rights or any other angle on the subject will not work. You cannot bargain with them or appeal to them on any other level. That's just the nature of a corporate entity.

Originally posted by Sidman Sidman wrote:

So please I urge you their is some hidden stuff behind this techonoly that if in wrong hands can monitor or even control what you can eat, or do.  and why stop at the credit cards when the next step is to add it to your identification, and than the next step is the body which is begaining to look more like the mark of the beast that the bible for tells, that is why i well not get it.  Not on my credit card not in my body not at all.  they will have to shot me before I give in.


Well, you've posted on this forum... and that's good. But if that's all you do, you will have to be shot as the steam roller of progress gears up to flatten you.

I personally don't need urging. I'm fully aware of the capabilities of this technology in the hands of people I do not trust... but I'm not afraid of the technology itself. I know that the RFID tags I've put inside my body are not capable of being used in some kind of master enslavement plan. Other chips, perhaps... but I have no plans on ever getting any human implantable RFID tags from 3rd party corporations with government and corporate ties... that's just one of the many reasons I did NOT get a VeriChip implant.

I also feel very strongly, as seen in previous posts, that biometrics will most likely be the next "mark of the beast". I seriously doubt there will never be a tangible item like a chip being forced on the public. Or, perhaps there will be attempts made for a short time... 5 to 10 years... then it will move on to biometrics. Other countries are already going hot and heavy with biometric identification systems to monitor children in schools and random people in public areas, while here in the US the debate still rages around RFID. I personally think the debate over RFID is wasting energy and pulling attention away from other, more serious threats to personal privacy like biometrics.
Amal ;)

www.amal.net
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Dr.Love039 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Love039 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2007 at 12:59pm
amal is making huge posts here
he IS putting a lot of thought into it
respect him for that
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tinkerC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tinkerC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2009 at 6:59am
If you keep your implanted chips in your system only, you have almost no
problem. amal is going all the right ways here . And yes, I do respect
him for the posts.
Geek

Yep, that's me.

I'm also a gearhead

Geek
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