Rfid Board Game

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   I'd like to make an RFID board game. I've seen projects from the ETH using RFID for games of various types, chess games, and there's even someone who's patented a board game concept. I'd like to make a board game with 40 different locations on the board.  At any point in time there might be up to 1750 pieces on that board, frequently stacked on top of each other, in various configurations, and of various types. To keep all those pieces under control, that is to know how many there are in each position, which type they are, and avoid manual counting altogether I'd like to use RFID. I wonder, would this be possible with today's RFID technology, and using the available DIY hard- and software? 

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Gadgety Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 03 December 2011 Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gadgety Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Rfid Board Game Posted: 03 December 2011 at 9:08am
	I'd like to make an RFID board game. I've seen projects from the ETH using RFID for games of various types, chess games, and there's even someone who's patented a board game concept. I'd like to make a board game with 40 different locations on the board. At any point in time there might be up to 1750 pieces on that board, frequently stacked on top of each other, in various configurations, and of various types. To keep all those pieces under control, that is to know how many there are in each position, which type they are, and avoid manual counting altogether I'd like to use RFID. I wonder, would this be possible with today's RFID technology, and using the available DIY hard- and software?

amal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 22 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2063	Post Options Post Reply Quote amal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 9:46am
	It all depends on how close together these locations are. For example, you couldn't have a checkerboard or chess board keep track of pieces that were stacked because the field would have to be strong enough to get all the pieces. With that kind of field strength, you're bound to detect pieces in near-by locations. If you didn't have to stack pieces, you might possibly be able to read one piece per square of a chess board using very low power... just enough to read the tag directly atop the space. 1750 pieces for 40 locations seems like a lot of stacking. That's over 43 pieces per location! What is this game? More detail will reveal whether or not it's possible. Tell us about the board layout.
	Amal ;) www.amal.net

Gadgety Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 03 December 2011 Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gadgety Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 10:23am
	Thank you for your rapid reply, Amal. BTW, way cool with your implants. The pieces are like casino chips. Imagine a board similar to a roulette type game. Sometimes chips are stacked, up to 20 on top of each other. Locations are rather small. There are 10 chip types. Where the locations are larger, say 15-20 square inches, there might be double stacking, that is sometimes 40 pieces on top of each other. If that is not feasible, I'll just have to adjust the game layout and the rules about stacking. However 20 would be good. The closeness of locations could be adjusted, if that is required to make it work.

amal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 22 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2063	Post Options Post Reply Quote amal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 10:28am
	If you can put as much buffer space between locations as possible, this could work. The buffer space would separate the locations and chips would not be allowed in the buffer space. The more buffer space you have, the more stacking you can have in a single location. You will be delving into the realm of RF theory at this point. You're going to want to locate an RF engineer or a commercial RFID company that can help you design this thing. I'm not sure if I'll be of much use beyond this point, but I can tell you this will be an expensive game with all the RF gear under it.
	Amal ;) www.amal.net

Gadgety Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 03 December 2011 Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gadgety Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 10:57am
	I understand. Not a DIY thing. In terms of cost any ballpark figure you could imagine for the RF parts? 40 locations = 40 antennae (?) + the chips. In addition there will be the engineering+programming, so the first prototype is going to be running, what, 10.000 dollars?

amal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 22 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2063	Post Options Post Reply Quote amal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 11:03am
	Assuming you want to take this to market, my guess is that 10k is an optimistic number. I once tried to prototype a simple down to earth RF device and it was going to run into the $100k range for a one-off marketable prototype; - design (2k) - engineer development (15k) - prototyping, tooling, mold making, etc. (9k) - CE/UL testing/listing (65k) - FCC testing (it is an RF device after all) (35k) - patent work (18k) Of course, you can bare-bones this thing and probably come out somewhere in the $20k range and have a bubble gum and paper clip version. Not ready for manufacture, but working enough to show the proof of concept to investors who could take it all the way to market.
	Amal ;) www.amal.net

Gadgety Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 03 December 2011 Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gadgety Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 11:03am
	BTW, my 8-year old kid saw the x-ray image of your hands and immediately asked "So is there a movie where he opens the door, or when they put the things in?"

amal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 22 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2063	Post Options Post Reply Quote amal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 11:05am
	haha yep, movies abound :) my old RFID site still has links; http://amal.net/rfid.html - 3rd section down. Here's my youtube channel which has some as well; http://www.youtube.com/user/amalgraafstra Edited by amal - 03 December 2011 at 11:05am
	Amal ;) www.amal.net

Gadgety Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 03 December 2011 Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gadgety Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 11:35am
	Thank you! I see. I'm not intent on taking this to market. But if I have one made I still want to be able to use it (not have the FCC come knocking on my door). Thanks again!

amal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 22 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2063	Post Options Post Reply Quote amal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 December 2011 at 11:37am
	If you only intend on making one for personal use, I wouldn't worry about the FCC. The type of RF and output power you'll be using are not concerns... you just need to get it tested if you want to bring it to market.
	Amal ;) www.amal.net